Interview with Walter H. Bowart

July 16, 1995
San Jose, California


Interview participants:
Marilyn Colman: MC
Will Robinson: WR
Walter Bowart: WB

WR: Here on the Lighthouse Report it is our pleasure to have before us a person whom we've interviewed many times on phone, Walter Boward. Walter, how are you doing today?

WB: Well, I'm doing great and it is my pleasure to be here in person with you.

WR: I think the first place to start is regarding the talk that you gave just last night, or I should say, Saturday night when this program is aired....why don't we get to the areas that you said that you didn't get to cover but would like to touch on, on the subject of mind control and manipulation.

WB: Well, of course the new areas of's flooding in all the time and that's...that's been called, what, the "cordless mind control area" if you will, some kind of broadcasting of technology that puts a human voice inside of.. human voice in teams, twenty-four hours a day, inside of a person's mind. Now we want to try to come... we are working on...Freedom of Thought Foundation is building a network and we're working with scientists to try and come up with ways to discern between people that are paranoid-schizophrenics. Because traditionally, if you had a voice inside your head you're diagnosed as paranoid-schizophrenic. And that was it. But we found a lot of these people that are hearing these voices are not paranoid-schizophrenic and function otherwise normally. They just hear these voices.

MC: And I think it's important to realize that not everything continues to be the same truth. Part of the problem we have with today's medical associations is they are not able to look at what's really happening and I think, Walter, it is important that you are one of the vanguard of opening up the new technology.

WB: Yeah, well, this is what we are learning, in our experience, is that the therapist and social workers down in the lowest level have the best handle because they really treat people hands-on. The next level that knows about it are the psychologists and the ones that know the least about all of this mind-control stuff are the psychiatrists. They are twenty years behind time. I mean, the idea of Freudian analysis is still going on and it is pathetic to think that people will pay lots of money-what is it? – hundreds of dollars an hour...

MC: ... and many, many years. About ten years... WB: ...and all talking about your problems does is reinforce your problem.

WR: In other words, what you are saying is they're more like the New York Dental Association.

WB: Yeah-it's like a closed shop and they're twenty years behind the time. They are working with outdated technology and ideas. MC: And that's right, because the New ,Age medicine adopted the work of the shaman and of the occult and of the spiritual side of man and we are now seeing that these two things, both the mechanical aspect of mind and body and the spiritual side, have to come together to heal the whole person.

WB: We have a False Memory "Spindrome" Foundation. I call it "spindrome" because it's not a syndrome what they describe a~ false memories. And the concept of this group is that memories can be implanted in your mind. False memories, untrue things. You will remember untrue things. Now, this is not established very well in law and there is a plus side to this because, in fact, false memories can be implanted. And also, people are inept at hypnosis and various other things so that they will pollute others unintentionally with false memories and things like that. However, the board of this organization is made up of a lot of CIA people, CIA contracts, "spychiatrists", and pedophiles, child molesters, people that are on the side of pedophilia. They are trying to defend pedophilia. And it is a very litigious, very aggresive organization that has struck terror in the hearts of the psychiatric, psychological and therapeutic community.

MC: Now how can we relate this to the two things like the Prince and the McMartin Cases?

WB: The McMartin case, I don't know exactly how it relates but...

MC: Well, if the children, they claim that the children's memories of being molested were implanted by the therapists working with them.

WB: Yeah, that's what they claim, but I don't think that had any bearing on the case and the outcome. I think that the withholding of evidence had more to do, and what evidence was found later that the children said was true of the tunnels and whatnot, that was discovered later, so I think the case fell because of bad...

MC: But you know that the folks that espoused this were using this as ammunition against you.

WR: Yeah, Yeah because the bottom line is you have a verdict turned back that they were acquitted. And they were using that to foster the idea to give the people like the False Memory Spindrome Foundation (FMSF) more ammunition to say "see?"

WB: Yes. Have you talked to Allan Shefland about this?

WR: No we haven't.

WB: He would be a good one to interview because he is a lawyer and he knows the ins and outs and if I have not misunderstood him, all of the decisions that have been made that seem to be in favor of the False Memory Spindrome Foundation will be reversed on appeal because they are all third party lawsuits and there is a good body of law that bars this kind of thing. And this is just a temporary thing.

MC: Because they're claiming, for instance this case where the girl, twenty years later, claims she was abused by her father and then they claim that the psychiatrist put this information into her head and now you are saying that these have a chance of being overturned back the other way.

WB: Yes back. Yeah, on appeal. And what concerns me though are people like Dr. Colin Ross with (Charter Hospital who is a leading psychiatrist who is supposed to understand Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD)) and says he understands the degree that the intelligence community has influenced and created Multiple Personality Disorders and yet he has joined the False Memory Syndrome Foundation and is trying, or at least pretending, to be an apologist to bring unity between this group and another, and it scares me because he also said "I want to make money from this" beforehand. And it's like a turncoat sort of... though his intentions may be to subvert the FMSF he is grossly outnumbered. And I think it is going to hurt his practice in the end. I don't think that the survivors are going to trust this man anymore.

WR: You know, we see something else happening also, an interesting phenomena, if you want to call it....l wouldn't call it a phenomena but....and that is, it seems that the people that are fostering this new form, I guess we could say new form of thought control, are working both sides of the fence. We also have an organization by the name of the Colt Awareness Network that works the other side of the street counter to the False Memory Syndrome but in a manner of speaking they make interesting bedfellows in some of the operatives.

WB: Yes, yes. And both of of the things they have in common however you divide it up to keep it simple.. .both of them are targeting psychologists and therapists. Primarily psychologists 'cause the psychiatrists are god on Mt. Olympus, protected by the AMA and above reproach generally. But the psychologists and therapists, the people who are really doing the work with these people hands-on are vulnerable to this kind of intimidation and litigation and threat. And right now in the summer of 1995 there is a climate of panic in the community. People are running scared. They are afraid to take clients. And of course you are dealing with Multiple Personality Disorder, a lot of which is government induced or manipulated through intelligence. I mean. Ross told me that 20% of his patients, he thinks, are government related. Another prominent psychologist told me that 40% of his patients are the government mind control, MPDs.

MC: Now as I understand this, his kind of breakdown of the personality is done out of trauma-based. And to disassociate means to survive as an entity, as a human. So the people break down into various fragments personality-wise to survive the pain of what they've experienced. Now that happens naturally also and also as we are reading...

WB: Oh, it does happen naturally, yes indeed but it rarely happens naturally to say 20% of the people that experience it because you have to have a certain imagination and a certain intelligence level. All of the multiple personality people are extremely brilliant and very gifted in many ways. and then the MPD...which comes first the chicken or the egg? But then after you've developed this Associative Development Disorder, or MPD? as it used to be called, you develop incredible extrasensory perception and various other gifts, at least that's the way they describe it and experience it. Now people like Ross say it's not demonstrable, I mean you can't repeat it, you can't prove that they have this ESP that they talk about and that remains to he seen. Because, time and time again? interviewing these people, you've heard them talk about the government, the United States clandestine intelligence interest in this, remote viewing and how to locate submarines under water and you know targeting objects at a distance, things like that.

WR: Now using a term or word that was actually invented by you, this is the offspring of the word, why don't we talk about what one would call the "cryptocratic" time line of when this really began and what has and how it's developed and escalated. – love that word. by the way. Marilyn and I are going to adopt that and use it more and more.

WB: Thank you, I think it's a good idea. I mean on behalf of the English language it's a prefix. "Crypto" is in the dictionary, and "ocracy" is in the dictionary, and "cryptocracy" isn't, and all it means is "secret government." But it plays against...cryptocracy plays against democracy. And some of the early stuff, the earliest modern evidence that we have... now Allan Shefland does a neat tape...we made a tape of his presentation and its available through the Freedom of Thought Foundation for $39.95 (can I say that?)

WR: We will give out the information toward the end of this interview and also on the program and how they can get in touch with you.

WB: Super, but he starts out with a slide show of the history of mind control. And it starts out with a picture of a skull with a hole in the middle of the head. And he says "this i9 the first attempt at mind control" and he goes through history with that. So you know, it starts with water torture and various things and they were experimenting with all kinds of shock treatments before electricity was invented. And then when electricity came on they used that and you can see the progress. And he's got vivid slides of the straight jackets, and I'm sure you've seen the reproduction of that thing they put around their head to keep them from biting their tongue off when they shock them.

MC: What's interesting, we might mention here, is that much of this work done over the centuries was done on female subjects. And it's important to note, because females were much easier to restrain, put away, put into institutions. And there was always a lot of cash to be made, because women could not inherit in England or in France until the laws were liberated. One in Napoleon's codus liberated the females so that they could inherit. The point is that women were often used, women and children, and they were not only operated on physically to deform them, but they were also put into institutions and experimented on. They really were the first mind experiment subjects.

WB: Yes, well no longer. Thank God. Things have changed in our society, and there is a great deal of empowerment going on for women and children, at last.

MC: And this is important in this whole discussion because I know, and I can tell you from my own research, that much of the military experimentation... and this is what Mr. Boward has done here... was done on the children of the doctors themselves. They used their own offspring to do these horrible things. Correct?

WB: Yes, as a matter of fact, that's the terrible thing, that children, the way they tortured the children. It's lurid and disgusting; we can talk about it if you want.

WR: I think we need to get back to the time line first.

WB: On the first page of Operation Mind Control, or on the second or third page, it says under a photograph, "Operation Mind Control is largely a male chauvinist game, because women and children were the targets." Eighty percent of the people we're finding now are women.

WR: Now I think we should start with the time line and see how this incorporates itself.

WB: I'm glad someone is keeping us organized. In 1940-41, the earliest thing we found in the modern context, as I was about to say, is a naval officer who had his memory suppressed, because it contained secrets of torture at the hands of the Japanese. Apparently he both did torturing and was tortured. He remembered these terrors and relived them only in the last days of his life in his late eighties after he began to suffer the side effects of a series of strokes, cardiovascular accidents. So this man got out of WWII, had his memories suppressed by mind control, this new science emerging. And lived a happy life and there's a VA history of him and all this. And he married and you know you have every bit of documentation on this man. Until the last days, only recently, he died, and he died in terror. He died screaming. He died from all the suppressed memories, memories that were suppressed by mind control.

WR: It literally came back and killed him.

WB: Well, the cardiovascular accidents or whatever was going on.

WR: Well, that could have been caused by the terror.

WB: Good question, good point.

MC: I'd like to ask you this – in many cases with children that have been abused. When they become adults they claim to have no memory of their childhood. Is that true that there is an age line on this, that it starts to wear off at a certain point and they start to remember?

WB: Well, actually we had here a guy, this guy must have been a grown man before they used whatever they did to suppress his memories. But normally, to create a multiple personality, they start before five years old. They start really young, and by five they've finished. The work is done.

MC: What's the normal memory for a child? What does a normal person remember before they are five?

WB: Oh, I remember being six months old.

MC: You do?

WB: Oh, sure. Yeah, I think a lot of people remember really early, some incidents. You don't remember continuously. But you remember falling off the bed, or you remember that suddenly I'm walking, how did I get to walking?

MC: So is that true that in many cases a person that does not have any memory, let's say before six, could have an incident of this, because people ask this...

WB: Oh, yes, I think one of the signs of abuse and trauma is lack of memory. If they continue to have missing time like if any of you listeners out there have clothes hanging in your closet that are your size but not your style, and they're over on one side of the closet and they change now and then, but you don't ever remember wearing them, it's time to consult somebody.

WR: It's funny, now last night, you know how you're dozing off and you've got the TV on, I just happened to catch a movie that was on HBO that was about a daughter being abused by her father. And the way it came about, it was that she was a teenager, and all of a sudden she started having nightmares, and she was always withdrawn from people, and it was because she never felt she was good enough. She felt guilty, she felt dirty. Now, you've got to remember, this was a drama, but I'm sure it was based on a study of some cases. It turns out that her father had been abusing since she was very small, just sneaking into the bedroom, a little at first, and then getting more agressive with it and to the point that she finally couldn't take it anymore, but she felt more than anything else that it was her fault. And it's sad...

WB: Yes, that's usually it. And also the child often seeks out the abuser. Like if there's a choice to live between Mom and Dad, and one of them is the abuser, the child will often choose the abuser to live with.

MC: Now this is the natural or non-mind control method, now how is this done artificially?

WB: Well you see now, you can live with all that. But I mean let's just talk about the so-called natural...

MC: Then oppose it to the way it's done under mind control.

WB: As far as I'm concerned from what I'm finding out, the natural level of abuse of children is too high.

MC: But what I'm saying is that I'd like to know if ... now again my experience with some of the people that I know, for instance behaviorists, Skinnerians, they did things to their children, now I'm talking about 25 years ago, acquaintances of mine that I've worked with, well they used Skinnerian cribs, they used various behavioral techniques on their children which I would not constitute as torture or mind control but did, to me, seem non humane. Now what did the government do beyond the Skinnerian Behavioral Techniques? What we want to know here is ... so people can understand what happened and then bring it up to now ... and its being done even on a higher level of science.

WR: For the benefit of the audience, let's go into a little detail on Skinnerian cribs.

MC: After, a Skinnerian crib, as I observed it, was an environment to create a womb-like environment for the child after birth, which in itself was not cruel, but the parents were supposed to have limited sensation by touch of this child. The child was suspended in something that loved somewhat like a waterbed, it was suspended in the air and according to Skinner it would create a person that was non-dependent on his parents. It would be a freer, non-non-contaminated individual. It would grow up to be one of the super people because Skinner felt that you could create any personality by nutrition; there would be lights, there would be sound, and there would be things. But the parents were asked to limit their touching of this child except to feed it. And it was done on a very very ... the schedules were very abrupt. By our standards.

WR: What I'm. getting at: how would that effect the family unit?

MC: They were experimenting on their own child.

WR: No that's not what I mean. What kind of product would this create?

MC: We don't know. The products are walking around. Who knows which ones they are.

WB: We know about Debbie Skinner. She committed suicide.

MC: Yes, thank you, that's true. He did his own kids.

WR: That's what I wanted to know. I was trying to get some feedback from somebody who knows a little more about this. Either you or Walter.

MC: Now I don't know what happened to this child that I observed.

WB: I only know about Skinner what I've read and I haven't read all that but I think they were rather extreme. I don't think most people would go to that extreme.

MC: And that's the point. In the university setting people have used their children. Again we know this from our research, they use their children. Now some at a very sinister level. but these people felt they were doing the right thing.

WB: Yes well ... we find MPD is multi-generational and this is what the intelligence community has known for a long time.

MC: And these were the highest level of the intellectual, cream of the crop, in your ivory tower academia, they were doing that.

WB: If you were abused as a child you will probably abuse your children. And probably this goes back to your grandfather or your grandparents.

MC: And according to the program that I went to: almost at the same age you were abused. the abuser goes to seek out the child. If he was abused at six months, he will go and abuse, he or she because there are shes that do it also, at six months. It's amazing, they will repeat what was done to them.

WB: And sometimes, it amazing and surprising that the mothers do it. That's what surprised me.

MC: There are many more female abusers of children. Society does not want to talk about that.

WR: Have you ever come in contact with any of the Skinnerian products, you might say?

WB: yeah, I have.

WR: Any observations?

WB: Well, Just that it was a form of abuse. Isolation, deprivation, alienation, man that's what it was. It was a foam of abuse.

WR: But what I'm saying is can you actually tell one by a personality trait possibly or ...

WB: Not specifically, it all fits into this abuse pattern. One of these files I have, I'm. looking for a picture of this Debbie Skinner, I don't know, have you seen it in here?

MC: But, you know what I'm getting at. I'm trying to talk about what's being done now and how a person would have been altered as a child in experimentation, because I think people would like to know if they were possibly exposed to that kind of medical treatment.

WB: Well, if they can't remember their childhood, say ten or before, then chances are there is something going on.

Now, we could be talking here and there is certainly enough on this tape to trigger certain people and if they lapse into unconsciousness and have missing time they should see a therapist and start therapy as soon as possible. Now again, Colin Ross said he thought there could be as many as ten million people that were so programmed. A lot of them were abused by their parents and then picked up by the intelligence community. In one case, a very vocal naming names and everything is Kathy O'Brian. And she tells the story of her father using herself and her brother in porn films as children and sending them through the mails. And he got busted by the postal authorities or whoever it is that checks that. Then they came to him and he was about to go to trial. And they said look if you want to get out of this you'll play ball with us and its the Department of Defense. Of course, they weren't ... they were probably CIA, but they said we'll show you how to do this for real. We'll show you how to torture her and then you'll torture her for us, for our purposes. And that started a lifetime of her service to, first of all, as a cute little girl to have sex with politicians and then later as a drug mule and then as a courier to carry secret messages and so on.

WR: Which brings us a little further along in the time-line.

WB: This was in the sixties.

WR: I don't want to jump ahead if there is a part in between there let me know but I think if we jump to the fifties then we get into Candy Jones. Which is a classic example that you mention in your book.

WB: After 194l we have this early case and in '43 Hoffman discovered LSD and then ten years later the CIA tried to corner the world supply and buy it all up. From '40 to '47 the US Army conducted numerous experiments in hypnosis, and Estabrooks, Watkins and Fischer were the prominent researchers. In 1950 Richard Helms was the DCI and was accompanied by two doctors who visited the USA embassy annex in Japan where four Japanese were suspected of being Soviet agents and they were interrogated with sodium amitol and Benzedrine and after experiencing the ultimate injections of these depressants and stimulants for 24 hours the CIA documents indicate that the guys confessed. In October of the same year the team flew to Korea where they conducted similar tests on twenty-five North Korean POWs and this time they had no success. Now these are just some of the highlights of the kind of research and the way this thing developed. That same year in 1950, the director of the Research Center for Addiction at Lexington, Kentucky kept some men on LSD for 77 straight days and addicts were paid off in heroin if they took part in the CIA drug test. In '51 McGills University's Donald Held received a $23,000 contract with Canada's Defense Research Board to study methods of producing attitude change through perceptual isolation have also received $30,000 from Rockefeller Foundation for similar research. And I'm going to get to Candy Jones in just a minute. In '5l, scientists representing the US CIA, Canada's DRB and Great Britain's MI6 met on June first to discuss sharing their research findings on mind control. Britain's Henry Tissard said his country had not, at that time, conducted any such research. And of course the CIA representatives are Carl Haskins and R.J. Williams. In '52 the Department of Navy awarded $300,000 to a Dr. Richard Wendt of the University of Rochester to conduct mind control research, originally known as "Project Chatterbox". This secret project was later renamed "Project Castigate" after the CIA got involved. Wendt claimed he had a substance that would rnake anyone talk but he refused to disclose the ingredients and his research was carried out in Frankfurt, West Germany. After some effort the cryptocracy learned that Wendt was using dexadrine secanol and tetrahydrocanibanol. The records did not say that the CIA used his own potion on Wendt to obtain this information.

MC: And this is a footnote to say that this is some of your mad doctors and even they couldn't control this fellow. He's sort of a legend as being really out there.

WR: Yeah, in '53 "Operation Artichoke" used subjects who were suspected of being double agents and individuals of "dubious loyalty" in mind control experiments and that went on for ten years. And years later the Congressional investigation revealed that it was satisfied with six drugs it had developed for use in a variety of operations. So in the same year, 1953, the CIA rented adjacent apartments in Greenwich village where they photographed unsuspecting civilian guinea pigs as they reacted to drugs as they were slipped surreptitiously into their drinks. The agency claimed that only 53 subjects were drugged in this field experiment and in the same year CIA funded National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) grants which found their way to the University of California, Berkeley, where Timothy Leary was hard at work studying how to diagnose personality. There he was introduced to the cryptocracy by his drinking buddy, Frank Baron. In 1954, CIA secret grants flowed to Harvard where Ph.D. Timothy Leary was conducting a study of how to change behavior by giving prisoners LSD in the Concord Corrections Facility. Leary's boss at Harvard was David McClellan Former OSS employee. In 1955 to '59 MKUltra Mind Control Research was conducted at forty-four US colleges and universities in the United States and

Canada. In 1956 the society for the Investigation of Human Ecology headed by Herald Wolf gave Canadian Dr. Ewing Cameron $38,000 plus for psychic driving experiments. It was revealed years later that the society was a CIA front organization. A little footnote on that. That human ecology group funded John Max's early stuff.

WR: You know there's another footnote to that, too. If my memory serves me well, I think it's mentioned ... it's either in Mass Murderers in White Coats, the one by Lenny Lapin. I believe Margaret Singer was connected with this group.

WB: And Robert J. Lifton was a partner of Max.

WR: Now, Singer went on to join the Occult Awareness Network. In fact she was the big front person out there at Waco.

MC: In fact I was sitting there watching Waco burn down and she looms on my TV and I almost fainted right in my living room! There are folks! We have to be sure we can track these faces, that why we're going back this way.

WR: So to continue, in 1957 the Technical Services Division of CIA moved six drugs from the experimental category to the operational category. The CIA operators used LSD and psychoactive chemicals on 33 targets in 6 different operations. This is all official, released by the CIA.

MC: That's the point. This is what we know about.

WB: In 1952, and it went on until 1962, the MKUltra experiments continued but in the end it was announced that the CIA experiments scored no major breakthrough with LSD or any other of the 149 different drugs that they experimented with. They said they found no effective truth drug, recruitment pill or aphrodisiac. They could not control any body's mind. They were unsuccessful in creating even one Manchurian candidate, the classified documents said. In 1959 to 1971 pinup poster girl Candy Jones or Jessica Wilcox was involved in years of courier and sex operations under the CIA's MKUltra direction. She used aliases such as Arlene Grant and is thought to be one of the first presidential models along with Marilyn Monroe by other surviving presidential models. She was a multiple personality - she had MPD. So that brings us up to Candy Jones.

MC: I have a questions. I would like to know if you have this information. All right, here we have a scenario of drug use by the government on the population. At what point did we have our freelancers going out there and using these drugs for profit and for play out on the streets. Because I know there must have been a leak and where do you think that happened?

WB: Well, we know that some of the drug labs Leary was connected with and that Billy Hitchcock got involved in funding and banking, putting the profits in the Swiss banks. That's all public information in the courts and that happened throughout this period in the 60's and into the 70's apparently.

MC: Was that freelance or was the government involved with those profits and the manufacture.

WB: See this is the way the visible government works. Hitchcock went to school with all the spooks. His dad was the roommate, Tommy Hitchcock. was the roommate in WWII with David Bruce who was the Chief of Technological Intelligence of OSS. Avril Harriman was a family

friend. They're part of the establishment. So even though they were making profits from this no questions but there was an intelligence atmosphere around this whole thing. And we have the records in the CIA files of the CIA contacting Leary and Alsley and Huxley and various other people.

MC: The reason I ask is because when you talk about a time-line about the experimentation with LSD and various other drugs, five or six of them, my experience was that I was in a program but I want to know whether it was sanctioned by the University of California or whether it was a freelance. Is there documentation to that effect?

You can probably find your files in there, except that Richard Helms destroyed 152 separate files. But we have reason to believe that ...

WR: Now back in, I'm not sure which year - it might have been in '78 - it might even have been 1980, but it was quite a few years ago. There was a little blip byline that I believe appeared in Freedom Magazine in which you mentioned that you had proof or that you had Leary admit that he was working for the CIA.

WB: Yes I even have an audio tape of it.

MC: I'd like to interject this before people think I'm a nut case. I have never had, as far as I could see, any bad effects of any of the things in the program that I was in. In fact, I think it's enhanced me as a human being. I do not use this as an endorsement to use drugs. I am not a drug addict. I never have been. But I have to say that some of the work was done by a lot of very legitimate people into me mind and into the expansion of mind. It's unfortunate that these people used it to hurt mankind when there was probably a point where it could have been used to help people.

WB: Well, the strange thing about all this government testing and everything is that it's as old as our history and very often it comes out of war. And of course we were in a thing called the Cold War at the time. Even though it may have been an artificial war it was a war for the battle for men's minds.

WR: And their pocketbooks.

WB: Oh yeah, but I mean grab their minds, their pocketbooks follow you know. As a matter of tact, one high ranking ... on CCN-it was on there once, when the Soviet Union fell and the whole thing fell apart, they flew a guy back to New York, a high-ranking KGB officer Karl somebody or other-l can't pronounce his name-and he said ... they asked him why did this fall apart - collapse? And he said America won the battle for the mind. And that was it. And they did it once and they never put it on again.

MC: It's one of those things you hear and you just want the rest.

WB: Leary and those boys were all involved and of course it was involved many Hollywood characters were involved. John Lilly was around. You know the famous story about Court Meyer's wife, Mary Meyer and Leary. And she was turning on President Kennedy and John Kennedy and then she was murdered. And so there's a lot of CIA ... there were several factions in the CIA. Now we know for example Olson - Frank Olson - who in "Operation Mind Control #1. I forgot what I said, in '78 he pushed, fell or otherwise exited from the whatever Story.

MC: And his wife very recently got compensation.

WB: Well more than that. They exhumed his body just a year ago and they found out he was dead before he left the window. He was thrown out. They crushed his skull and threw him out the window. You know so someone killed him. Now, it wasn't LSD at all. Probably LSD wasn't even involved in that.

MC: They used that as a cover.

WB: As a cover.

WR: Which brings us back to how on a lot of things in order to get at the truth you have to go through a lot of cut out stories and layers.

MC: So what's happened with that case since then?

WB: We don't know about that but they're going to reopen the suit. Murder is a different case.

WR: Now he was running around with the crowd Gottlieb ...

WB: Lashbrook ...

WR: White, Colonel White ...

WB: Was he there?

WR: I don't know if he was in the room hut he was part of that crowd.

WB: Colonel White was one of the most insidious part because he was part of the Bureau of Narcotics and dangerous drugs. It was a precursor, his behavior's been linked to "the war on drugs" operations of the DEA.

MC: He was a cop!

WB: He's a smuggler and he used the drugs and he sold the drugs.

MC: Who does that sound like? It's sounds like so many of our political fellows we have running around now who are nothing more than fancy drug pushers.

WR: Well they had to have a role model!

WB; We know for a fact that what the government denies free enterprise supplies. And it's well documented that if you make something illegal, no matter what you do you give power to it and people want it if you say you can't have it. So that raises price and then in comes the underground economy. And that's one of the reasons ... the underground economy is bigger than the regular economy in the United States of America. And that's one of the reasons they want to do away with the income tax.

MC: So the next thing we're talking about here is what I see in this time-line is drugs being used at a certain point. Now I guess what we're going to continue on is when they get beyond drugs into the next step of the occult. These things keep moving along. The attempts to control ...

WB: Now the occult has always been with us. T he occult is any myth, metaphor or symbol in your mind, in my mind, in any body's mind that means something.

WR: Just like me word "crypto" means "secret" "occult" means "hidden".

WB: That's it. It's something inside yourself. Now if I know that you think that you had a mystical experience and it involved butterflies, I'm going to use a butterfly to control you. If neurolinguistics programming has taught us anything it has taught us that if you understand a person's beliefs you can manipulate by their own beliefs. So that's what all the symbolology is about. I would like to take exception and maybe this is not the appropriate time to do it with the word "occult" because it means a "small group". that's all it means. And I think that we're misplacing what is a tribal, even a McCluan approach would be appropriate, a retribalization is going on. Our families have failed us. Family society has failed us. Therefore people are looking to "gangs" and "cults" and other things to replace the failure of the family. These are tribal things.

WR: sort of a surrogate family you might say.

WB: Yeah, someone said to me there is no such thing as a homeless person. There are only people without a tribe. And they are tribeless people. And if you think McCluan predicted this in the 60's. And in fact its playing out right now m the information age mat we are retribalizing and there is a realignment. You know your family isn't going to support you as much as the members of your own People that are locked together in a like belief system.

MC: And that is exactly what I was saying in the beginning of this, that its up to us to hold ourselves together, to trust and to love and to share these concepts and ideas so that we can protect the tribe of humans. Because the tribe of humans are dying!

WB: The tribe of humanity. And here I go again saying about this new technology leapfrogging to the end of the story, fast forward from the 50's to the 90's. OK in 1963 CIA personnel helped the underground chemists in the San Francisco hay area set up illegal laboratories to manufacture LSD and related psychedelic drugs. President John Kennedy decided to do away with the federal deficit and was considering taking monetary production away from the Federal Reserve Board when he was assassinated in a public blood ritual traumatizing the nation. Was the media used to issue the imbedded commands? Good question. What's the first thing that changed that came to your mind alter the assassination You have to ask yourself.

WR: Well, the first change was the Vietnam War was back on track and escalated.

MC: Which was also of course a blood letting and vary ritualistic. War being one of the primary sacrificial aspects of human life.

WB: Yeah, so the way it would happen is trauma, then suggestion. And then the suggestion would forever change something in the public consciousness. What do you think; that was?

MC: Public execution for one - assassination.

WB: I think that after the assassination of John Kennedy people no longer believed in the government.

MC: Oh yes, but I mean the whole idea of the fact that it could be done.

WR: What was practiced overseas by the CIA had come home to roost at that point.

MC: I see what you're saying.

WB: Now they feared the government. And I think it was done on purpose in public. They could have ... I understand attempts were made to kill him in private. Yes, so it's like a parental control. Like a punishment concept.

WB: So now you guys are going to get in line because we can even kill your president. And I understand from survivors in those days, women who that are now in their forties, most of them late forties, who were teenagers at the time Kennedy was assassinated, their handler came to them. These were traumatized women, abused women, controlled women that were being used as gorgeous little sex slaves and their handlers came to them and said, "See? We can kill Kennedy; we can kill anybody." And this has been repeated to me several times in several interviews by various people.

MC: Now here's something off the cuff: Marilyn Monroe had a history of abuse and had gone to foster homes and various things. Do you think she could have been a mind control subject?

WB: The survivors have told me that she was. They know more about it than I do. But they said the pattern of her life and her behavior indicates that she was one of the first so-called presidential models. And you know she was right up there sleeping at the top.

MC: That's right. Because you know all the things that I've read ... many books ... Susan Strasburg's book is very interesting because it shows that personality. That she was different personalities with different people. Everyone knew a different Marilyn Monroe according to Susan Strasburg. We may have a different personality changing.

WB: So we may have another Candy Jones. And that's what they said. In 1964, the DCI and the CIA Director Richard Helms ordered that a Soviet defector, KGB Colonel Yuri Senko undergo psychiatric evaluation to determine if he was telling the truth. Now Senko gave the CIA information about bugs in the US embassy in Moscow and named over twenty KGB sleeper agents in the west. After 3 1/2 years in the hands of the mind control specialists, he was released. Helms remained skeptical of this Senko story some which eventually proved to be true. In '65-'66, the CIA funded project Operation Resurrection which subjected lobotomized apes to radio telemetric electronic brain stimulation. The apes brains were stimulated by wires implanted inside their skulls for a while. Then their heads were decapitated and transferred to other bodies to see if energy from radio frequency could revive the animals. In 1966, other apes were bombarded with radar waves which sautéed their brains within their craniums. Today that technology is available through a private company, run by a former government weapons engineer in Alamagordo, New Mexico. And does this not sound like Nazi experimentation?



And crackpot Nazi experimentation at that.

WR: We might add at that time nobody knew where Mengele' whereabouts were. He was supposedly running all over from South America to Central Southwest to Arizona, he was in Arizona in me 60's.

WB: Yes. In 1965, the CIA paid Baltimore Laboratories $15,000 to find a drug which could be used to fake a means of suicide. They came up with several they thought might work with a careless pathologist. Now one wonders...I'd like to see the files on that. It would be hilarious, you know. Corpses)reviving in the morgue and stuff. The same year the CIA spent seven hundred thousand dollars on research with terminal cancer patients. That was '65. And mental defectives at Georgetown University. The unsuspecting patients were given a combination of stimulants, depressants and stress inducing drugs in a failed attempt to replicate the psychic driving techniques developed earlier by Cameron in Canada.

WR: ln the near future, theres going to be a footnote to that information. Theres a gentleman who's going to be coming out with a book on the subject of Dr. Mary Sherman, working out of Tulane University and her strange connection with David Ferry. ..

WB: Oh, Oh!

WR: ...and cancer experiments that were being performed in New Orleans.

MC: And we've been following...and in fact we've been waiting with baited breath for this gentleman to finish the book and get it published so we can interview him, so we could read to book. We're very excited about it. And there's far more to it.

WB: Well I hope he puts me on the review list

WR: The gentleman's name is Ed Haslam and I believe he's not too far from where you are located.

MC: We will do that. We will put you in touch.

WR: We will get that information to you when we get home.

WB: That would be great In '65, do you want me to continue? In '65...

WR: Yes! Sorry, I just wanted to interject that because you said cancer...

WB: Yeah, Colonel George White former Bureau of Narcotics agent, famous George White repeated a 1953 field experiment with adjoining apartments on 'Telegraph Hill m San Francisco. 'The project was code-named Midnight Climax. White filmed the CIA paid prostitutes giving their johns LSD from behind a one-way mirror. It was believed that LSD effects on sexuality would show up on the film. White was also active in New York City giving powerful psychoactive chemicals like ivolgain and undocumented drugs in unmeasured quantities to selective leaders of the anti-war movement and other targeted political and civil rights activists. In 1966 Ronald Reagan was elected governor of California. Operation Spellbinder was a CIA research project which attempted to hypnotize an agent into becoming a sleeper killer. The FOIA released documents saying that several Cuban immigrants were found upon which hypnosis was tried. The goal was to plant an agent in Cuba w-ho, when triggered, would kill Fidel Castro. The CIA documents say this didn't work and independent research turned up first person witnesses that classically conditioned MPD, Multiple Personality Disorder, agents were at work within Cuba from Castro's rise to power in the late 1950's. In 1966 in October, possession of LSD was declared a Class One felony, stopping all research on it. The psychedelic 60's were over and the war on drugs began. 'The cryptocracy black ops. funds grew fat. ln 1967 DARPA, that's the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, was called Project Pandora got under way with Dr. Joseph Sharpe who is presently in NASA-Ames Laboratory today. Pandora concluded in 1969 stating that nothing would he clear without experiments on human subjects in their natural settings. Nixon approved- "basic research" on voluntary human subjects. In 1968 at the peak of the student unrest Dr. Gordon J.F. McDonald, Science Advisor to Lyndon B. Johnson described how man-made changes in the earth's ionosphere could be used for mass behavior control. He pointed out that low frequency electromagnetic operations could be used to attack the brain-waves of human beings. He stated, " perturbation of the environment can produce changes in behavioral patterns".

MC: Now I want to interject here, is this information recently unclassified'? Was it available in print at the time, was it, you know...I'm trying to find out this was..

WB: In '68? No.

MC: So this was secret in '68?

WB: Yes.

MC: About what time was much of this information declassified.

WB: Oh in the late '70's.

MC: In the late '70's..

WB: Right.

MC: And very few people ever saw this declassified information.

WB: Oh yeah, most of it.

MC: See , this is important because people think oh well that's ancient history and everybody knew about it. ho! Thats exactly why we're doing this because we're showing you that there's been a progression and that's why this is important.

WB: Yeah. I have recently pitched a documentary through my agent in New York to several major television companies and one of them being 60 Minutes. And 60 Minutes said, "oh we've done that. We did that in the 70's already". But the understanding that they did in the 70's it was very shallow and it's nothing like what we know today. And it should be done and redone and redone until people get it. You know. It's the biggest story since the atom bomb.

WR: As long as you have Mike Wallace with 60 Minutes you're not going to have that story come out in full flower.

WB: Yeah. Is that right?

WR: I have my, well let's just say I have my feelings about who Mike Wallace is and a couple of other people.

WB: He;'s one smart fellow, Ill tell you that.

WR: Oh yeah!

WB: In 1968, presidential models and members of the secret team were giving vaccinations against Auto immune Deficiency syndrome. AIDS is still believed to be a blood transmitted disease which can be sexually transmitted. It is still commonly believed that there is yet no cure at all. Eyewitnesses, people from the intelligence community, people recovering, MPDs, Project Monarch victims testify differently. Though it wasn't called AIDS in those days many of them were given vaccinations and Fletcher Prouty tells us that some of the boys on his secret team were also inoculated to Auto immune Deficiency type problems.

MC: And that is the information this book is going to cover that we just told you about. Its going to go into what we believe in the secret history of the origin of AIDS and it is most definitely not just a retroactive virus, something thats...

WB: Right. Theres definitely a pattern in all of this that says that the United States, citizens of the United States,...were...

WR: We're one big laboratory.

WB: Well, theyre considered rats in a lab. Now anybody that works for the government is owned by the government in the minds of these people. And they would be the first to be experimented on.

MC: And that's something that people who are in the military now really, if they look at themselves as valuable human beings, even though they do sign themselves away when they join the military, pay attention to what you are being given. You do have civil rights even though you have a contract with the US government.

WB: But I mean the concept of "I will die for my country" is the wrong premise to run things on. Nobody needs to die now. You can let the robots die. And nobody needs to die for country. Die for something more worthwhile than the country. Which is obsolete. Which is an institution that's been replaced by networks.

MC: And as we go through this time-line it is important to note that this is not set in steel. That anyone out here hearing this can stop it. If you are a part of this and you feel bad about it, you can stop it. I don't know about putting your life on the line, but you would be saving your fellow human beings.

WB: But see now the United States has signed an agreement to stop. So the government is probably stopped.

MC: You think that?

WB: I would think that. 'Two years ago, a year and a half' ago, they signed the agreement, an international treaty that they wouldn't experiment on their own citizens anymore. But they proposed the treaty four years before. And they took their time signing it. But now it gave them the time to go private with all this research and there is no controls on private enterprise.

MC: You do remember Mr... Dear Mr. Kissinger saying in a congressional hearing , "we do not assassinate foreign leaders . That's after the leaders were assassinated. And everyone just looked at him. You know you can claim anything.

W13: Yes. Shall I continue?

WR: Yes , I would like to mention that in the time-line we can't prevent what has already happened. And it needs to be studied. Which brings us back to your book.

WB: Well we can prevent it in the future! Thats the main thing. Never let it happen.

WR: Well ,that's what I'm talking about. But what's happened up to now is still going on. Like you say, it's entered the private sector and I would like to talk about what may be the latest phase in this which was one that they've sort of kept alive all the way back in the '50's and that is the connection between alien abduction and mind control... which part. OK. excuse me ..

WB: You're jumping way ahead.

WR: I don't want to do that. We'll back up then.

WB: We're going to be in 1970 now.


MC: And along with the recent privatization of the prisons because much of the experimentation is being done in facilities like Pelican Bay.

WB: Yes.

WR: And the facility in Pennsylvania where Mumia abu Jamal is being kept and Butner.

WB: I wanted to do a bumper sticker that said, "Americas economy needs more prisons". Because it's the growth industry in America.

MC: A private growth industry.

WB: It's the private growth industry and we've got even more people in prison than any other country per capita. In 1970, Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder published "Psychic Discoveries Behind The Iron Curtain". The book motivated Congress to order the Department of Defense to close the mind-gap. National Security Advisor Svignu Berzynski, the founding director of David Rockefellers's Trilateral Commission, founder of the infamous FEMA, wrote "Technology will make available to leaders of major nations a variety of techniques for conducting secret warfare of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need to be apprised.

It is possible and tempting to exploit for strategic political purposes the fruits of research on the brain and on human behavior. Accurately timed, artificially excited electronic strokes could lead to a pattern of oscillations that produce relative high power levels over certain regions of earth. In this way, one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of a very large population in selected regions over an extended period. " You can see what's coming in 1970. In 1971, the CIA paid three professional astrologers $350 a week to predict the future in Operation Often which ran from May, 71 to October 72. I wonder if those predictions came true? In 1973 ,Dr. Joseph Sharp discovered he could hear his own voice when the microwave analog of sound waves was beamed at the back of his head in an experiment conducted at Walter Reed Army Institute of Research.

WR: 1973!

WB: 1973. And I have a document here from 1962.

WR: So now we're getting into the wireless, you might way.

WB: Yes. Now you can see what's coming after Sbignu predicted this. This thing is written by Allan H. Frey, of General Electric Advanced Electronics Center, Cornell University in Ithaca, New York and it was published in The Journal of Applied Physiology in l 962 . The human auditory system responds to modulated electromagnetic energy. And it says that they used extremelv low average;rage power intensities of electromagnetic energy and that humans had the perceptions of sounds as induced in normal and deaf humans. The effect was induced from several hundred feet from an antenna the instant the transmitter was turned on and is a function of' carrier frequency-y and modulation. Attempts were made to match the sounds induced by electromagnetic energy and acoustic energy. The closest match occurred when the acoustic amplifier is driven by the RF transmitters modulator. and it goes into the technical thing. But me interesting thing about this...with that it says here that one can shield oneself from this kind of technology by taking a two inch piece of fly screen and putting it on the temples of your- head above y our cars.

MC: ' That's right where your audio nerve is and right in here its your audio nerve'?

WB: Yes.

WR: So it sort of scrambles and deflects it.

MC: See the thing that gets me here is...

WB: Over the temporal lobe...

MC: Oh so that's light here. . . See now if you massage this area here many things. . .I do massage...and this in here can relieve eye strain. This can loosen up all the facial muscles. It's obviously, even on the outside, very important to the function of the eyes. the brain, your balance. But we have to see here that magazines publish data like this and people somehow think that it's crackpot data. I know that's not true. We have lots of data that we don't understand right now.

WR: People if they really want to find out more about this they don't have to rely on digging into some clandestine files as much as they have to follow the scientific journals in certain electronic areas and fields such as this.

WB: YES and then were going to get there...we're going to advance up to the alien abduction experiences which sound very much like this stuff we're hearing from now on in this research. . and ;if so we have the survivors reports...human intelligence, citizens intelligence where we're just interviewing people. And Theyre describing hearing voices and having the effects of this thing.

And right on up to 1994-45......these experiments with magnetic waves inducing alien abduction

experiences. But between now and then we are still dealing with the 70's on this time-line.

OK. And so. in 1973, the Rockefeller Report revealed that DCl Richard Helms ordered 153 separate MKUultra files destroyed as his Last act of office and in years to come many of those files which were thought destroyed were discovered as "misplaced" files, behind cabinets and what have you . And they reveal a long history of criminal activities by individuals who hid behind the National Security Act and ran amok arrogantly treating citizens of their own country as so many lab rats.

And to date nobody has been brought to justice on this criminal behavior. Maybe perhaps we should have them all a pardon so that they can tell us the secrets that they ve hidden so long. If we give them all a pardon we can have Cold War clime trials and let everybody go. But let's find out what happened and it's never going happen again.

MC: Now we have here an ethical problem that the government funds various research scientists that do this kind of work and tells them its alright and their ethics are thrown out the window.

WB: Yeah. well also the need to know, the compartmentalized need to know keeps scientists from knowing real}y what they are working on. And I remember back in...doing a video of.. in the 60's at Lawrence Livermore Labs in Long Island. They were shooting lasers around. And one o~ the camera crews said, "Oh look! as me laser burned a hole through a two inch piece of sleel. Pop! You know. The guy said, "a death ray!", and the scientist said, "a measuring device'"

MC: That's correct. Thats part of our information.

WB: 'That was the Brooking Institute not the Livermore Labs and also it was '75 for the Rockerfeller Report? not 73, correct ions here. We have a technical editor in our midst whose cleaning up our act...OK so anyway, going through all this we end up with Jolly West in '73 trying to brainwash students at the Center for the Study and Treatment of Violence with Earl Brian. We have in 76, 50 million people in the United States being inoculated in a germ warfare self defense drill against swine flu that was found only in a couple of soldiers outside the gates of Fort Dix. In '73 to '76 we have the Pike Committee, Church Committee, Rockefeller Commission holding hearings about the tip of the mind control iceberg and in '74 the mind control exploratory development began. This term needs to be defined. It has specific DOD meaning. In 1975 the CIA began conducting research on how human beings responded to stimuli. The CIA claimed it had used no drugs in these experiments which were conducted in a Diego Hospital. It was said the optical experiments ended in 77. In '76 George Bush Ronald Reagan's protégé' was appointed DCI by Gerald Ford but Bush wasn't Ford's choice. One of Bush's first decisions as DCI was to authorize experiments on involuntary human subjects with radar pulse...microwave beams. The woodpecker signal disrupted global radio communications in Eugene Oregon. In '77 eight institutions including 44 colleges and universities were notified by the CIA that their campuses had hosted MKUtra and related research in the 50's and 60's. The Gestichner Fund for Medical Research based in Georgetown and Human Ecology Fund chaired by the Brown University President were two of the main CIA conduits passing MKUltra research funds. From '79 to '84 advanced development got under way. Whatever that meant in the terms of "advanced development". In 1980, Reagan was elected the law and order president and things began to roll behind the scenes with George Bush running the addle-headed actor turned president. In 1981 Albert Gore was appointed to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on which he served on the Energy and Commerce Sub Committee with oversight on all government sponsored research at university laboratories. Gore was subsequently in a position to quash investigations of involuntary human subject research and he also served on the Appropriation Sub- Committee dealing with the flow of funds to the intelligence community. In '8l Major Oliver North was brought to the White House to set up a domestic Project Phoenix for the National Security Council. North was a junior officer under Col. Fletcher Proudy in earlier days and Proudy said "North was so dumb I wouldn't send him out to mail a letter". North's first job at the White House was to set up the Crisis Management Center in the basement from which George Bush ran the intelligence community for eight years. In '83 William French Smith Attorney General split the domestic counter- intelligence and terrorism turf up between the FBI and FEMA. Major North was the NSC liaison to FEMA. Mind control operations went to FEMA over which there was no congressional oversight. In May of 83 the Department of Defense stole the PROMIS software from lNSLAW. Cryptocracy insiders described all this and its been in all the...there's been descriptions of the whole thing which you know... research and development which included extremely low level energy, electromagnetism, photons, bioplasms and similar categories of electrobiological communication and interception techniques that utilize advanced electronic technology. In '84 prototype development began. Thats another term that needs to be researched in its history of uses under the DOD. There were massive demonstrations and so called field tests of invisible weapons. In March 1984, Tyler's paper, The Electromagnetic Spectrum in Low lntensity Conflict was written at Maxwell Airforce Base, Alabama. The same year Slammer was proposed to the DCI by the Air Force. In April or thereabouts the CIA raided North's office and took over mind control operations. The same year Greenham Common women were assaulted with radio frequency and other weapons by brave worriors of the US Air force, General Electric Aerospace and NASA. They all went into invisible weapons and mind control in a big way. In 84 "Mind Wars" by Ronald Macrae was published. Macrae was a journalist who had previously worked with the Office of Naval Research. Then later, recently, I believe in 94, ten years later he recanted after a brief stay in a mental institution. ln '85,Vitali Yvchenko was kidnapped in Rome by the CIA.

Soviet psychotronic research and operations continued so that "one can program anything into the brain of experimental subjects" it was said. "A human being becomes a silent cog in a hellish machine of all devouring fear. An individuals brain can be suppressed, activities curtailed, so that an individual will submit to any wish of the operators" said Emil Fedorovich Bucharin and Molodoya Gvardya. In 1986 CIA director, William Casey died suddenly of a brain tumor. The mind control operations went into a holding pattern while the Senate confirmed William Webster as DCI.

MC: I just want to make a comment here that I found something very interesting. The Hoover Institute, about that time, about six months before that had a very large involved conference on, strange thing, on brain tumors and how to treat them. Ive been told by others who were involved with the Hoover Institute that they do not do that type of work. And that was on call. It is on record. lt is on their paper at :

Stanford University. Very interesting that very soon after that, Casey dies at a very convenient...night before the hearings, of a brain tumor.

WR: He died in May o f '87.

WB: Yeah, in May of 87, but I didn't get a chance to finish. Anyhow in 19...if you ask a doctor he will tell you that can't inject cancer. Apparently cancer cells don't mean anything, you can't inject them. But you can inject plutonium which will give you cancer real fast. In 1987 GWEN, the Ground Wave Emergency Network had begun in the early 80's. Dr. Robert Vecter said, GWEN is a superb system in combination with cyclotron resonance for producing behavioral alterations in the civilian population. And I refer you to PROJECT HAARP. ln 1988, Former CIA Director, George Bush was elected president. Some researchers think that mind control was used to detain Michael Dukakis in the Massachusetts State House until after Labor Day. In 1989 Bush declared this would be the "decade of the brain". Mind control went fully operational. Several researchers told that literally thousands of individuals were designated to be killed in behavioral neuroscience experiments. Especially ONR's University Research Initiative. Those who lived were recycled into other uses by the cryptocracy. In the same year George Bush declared war on drugs using the embedded command" Just say No" drug consumption went up. Prices went up. The black ops funds of the cryptocracy swelled. And we know that if you tell a kid "no" he does the opposite and "no" is an embedded command to do the opposite. In I991 operations Bug, Third Chance, Derby Hat and MKUltra under which various aspects of mind control were performed from BB size ear, eye nose and brain implants had been studied for two decades. And they were placed in the hands of South American dictators and others in operations against high echelon captured drug dealers and other prisoners. In '93 the FBI? ATF and Delta Force teams tested psychological and psychotronic warfare on the Branch Davidians at Waco, Texas. Microwaves were beamed at the compound as evidenced by a number of videos of the dishes pointed directly at the main building. Loudspeakers play all night, along with bright lights and a psychology of terror as well as Subliminal commands were used on the surrounded Davidians. Also, Dr. Jolian West visited there as a consultant to the spooks and FBI and ATF who surrounded the compound. In 1994 Energy Secretary Hazel Oleary declassified millions of secret documents. It was learned quickly that radioactive materials were used on US adults and children, so-called project Monarch survivors began to understand why so many of them...those are mind control survivors... why so many of them had radioactive-like damaged thyroid glands. And October 21st, 1994 the US

became a state party to the convention against torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. The Senate ratified it four years before it was signed. On September 10th the space shuttle Discovery utilized a powerful green laser directed at key sections of North America and other parts of the globe. Pulses from the shuttle laser bounced off thick high clouds aver a tropical storm. Pulsed at 10 hertz, researchers believe that this was a behavioral experiment that had been predicted ten years before. Ten cycles per second is the same frequency as the woodpecker signal and it is within the human brain wave frequency. Researchers believe it was used in conjunction with RF broadcast from the Arco Haarp Antenna in Alaska which was tested during the Discoverys flight. As Dr. Becker says in the Body Electric, Hypnotists often use a strobe light flashing at alpha wave frequencies to ease me subject into trance. The same or other signal could carry a subliminal message". More for the researchers.

MC: Is that why strobe lights were used in the 60's in open dances because they certainly altered behavior.

WB: Good chance, yeah. In 1995 the Residential Committee on Radiation began to hear evidence of me MKUltra survivors who were used as radiation guinea pigs in their childhood. Most of us were victims and still are targets of experiments and operations by the United States government or its assigns in private government, contract government. Most of us are survivors of a dark age in American History known as me Cold War. The history is still unfolding and we are waiting every day for the new revelations which will come from the cryptocracy. And I understand, very soon, we are going to have some Kennedy assassination news, is it today or tomorrow? They are releasing documents. This week I think.

WR: There's a deadline.

WB: Yeah the deadline.

And the remaining Oswald files.

MC: And as you heard time. . .

WR: John Newman has evaluated the ones that have been released in his new book out...

WB: I know Ive got the book and I am reading it now. Im getting ready to interview him. I met him in Dallas at the 3Oth anniversary symposium. Were you there ? Ah, it's a shame we didn't run into you there.

MC: To draw this to a close as you heard the time is running out. You heard the...If you could hear on this tape you could hear the beautiful chimes of many clocks in this room and we want to thank Walter Boward and if he would wind it up here...

WB let me just wind it up.

MC: Do you want to wind it up because then I would like you to put for the listeners out how they could contact you, how they can see the rest ot this material.

WB: Now this sounds like its all the downside but in 50 years of this secret experimentation the crypttocracy discovered a language of the subconscious and while technology is employed, it an boils down to the human mind and the way it works. And human language, and language and peer pressure and those behavioral things are more powerful than any hardware. The cryptocracy found the Rosetta Stone to the human mind which, if ever fully released from the cryptocracy safe, might make criminality and mental illness a thing of the past. It might make every child a genius and every citizen happy, creative and intellectually productive from the cradle to the grave. It might produce a golden age in which the human species will begin to claim its birthright and rediscover its suppressed higher abilities and finally be allowed to leave this playpen of a planet to wander sanely among the stars.