[Nov 2005, not expecting a reply, the only ones you get from media people are usually the automated responses.]

feisty!  I think we both know who the parasites are on this planet.

I have had a look at some of your vaccine comments:
"The CDC uses the number of 24,000 - 36,000, which the media naturally convert to solely the top end. I'll bet 24,000 is more like it."
Less than a thousand actually. 
The lie: "Every year in the United States, on average.......approximately 36,000 people die from flu."  CDC October 6, 2004 http://www.cdc.gov/flu/keyfacts.htm

Number of flu deaths 753 (2002) CDC    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_13.pdf

"That said, I get my annual flu shot because I cannot afford any down time that I might otherwise have prevented. Plus, it adds to herd immunity so that it protects those who might get more seriously ill than I am but either didn't get the vaccine or are insufficiently protected."
LOL.  No vaccine is going to protect you from vitamin D deficiency, toxemia and cell phone pollution, and flu vax is well know to be completely useless.
"We proposed that annual fluctuations in vitamin D levels explain the seasonality of influenza........which cause recurrent and predictable wintertime vitamin D deficiency, predispose human populations to influenza epidemics. We raised the possibility that influenza is a symptom of vitamin D deficiency in the same way that an unusual form of pneumonia (pneumocystis carinii) is a symptom of AIDS. That is, we theorized that George Bernard Shaw was right when he said, "the characteristic microbe of a disease might be a symptom instead of a cause."


"There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them, anyway."------Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the FDA) http://www.whale.to/vaccines/flu.html

"In the course of a vaccination trial that took place in France on October 1st, 1981, Professor Mercie, former director of the glamorous Pasteur Institute, was asked why the Institute kept producing and selling its anti-'flu vaccine despite its recognized worthlessness. Professor Mercie's candid reply: 'Because it helps financing the Institute's research'." - (Hans Ruesch, Naked Empress p81)

"It is unquestionable that flu vaccination is not only useless but also costly. And it is a 'surprise' only to those who obstinately ignore reality or who still harbour illusions because they are poorly or totally uninformed on this vaccination (and other vaccinations)."---Official French document

And good to get your annual dose of poisons like mercury and aluminium:

"According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD (http://members.aol.com/nitrf), the world's leading immunogeneticist and 13th most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review journals), if an individual has had five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied) his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's Disease is ten times higher than if they had one, two or no shots. I asked Dr. Fudenberg why this was so and he said it was due to the mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot (and most childhood shots).  The gradual mercury and aluminum buildup in the brain causes cognitive dysfunction.  Is that why Alzheimer's is expected to quadruple? Notes: Recorded from Dr. Fudenberg's speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington, VA September, 1997.  Quoted with permission. Alzheimer's to quadruple statement is from John's Hopkins Newsletter Nov 1998."

"She's BAAAAAA-CK!!!! It's Joyce Reilly, nurse/ghoul, she of the thousands of dying Desert Storm Vets and their deformed children and fluorescent semen." http://www.fumento.com/weblog/archives/gulf_war_syndrome/

Joyce Riley is a well know gov' disinfo agent, so a straw man or woman in this case.  GWS is mostly down to Anthrax vaccine http://www.whale.to/vaccines/anthrax.html  
Birth defects isn't a subject to joke about.
"......I would like to note however that many of the babies born to Soldiers in my unit after we returned from our 03-04 deployment had significant birth defects i.e. born without an anus, born without a trachea etc.  Friends of  mine that had to go down to Lackland Air-Force Base in San Antonio, Texas (I am stationed at Fort Hood, Texas) because of complications with pregnancy, saw many, many more examples of birth defects from returning Soldiers and the nurses there even made comments alluding to a correlation between the deployment  and the defects; though I doubt any studies have been done...."
And Depleted Uranium is an obvious contributory factor and an obvious war crime http://www.whale.to/b/depleted_uranium.html

"One huge study after another has cleared thimerosal as a cause of child developmental disorders, but there is a powerful lobby that couldn't care less. " http://www.fumento.com/weblog/archives/vaccines/

LOL.  the only ones who couldn't care less are your vaccine friends. All of those 'studies' have been well shown to be fraudulent and designed to conceal the truth http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr54.html

I have collected some independent expert quotes http://www.whale.to/vaccines/vax_autism_q.html

 I am no longer "trying to dig up evidence to prove" vaccines cause autism. There is already abundant evidence,...... This debate is not scientific but is political.  --- [July 9, 2006 Blog/letter] Discovering the causes, treatment of autism ----David Ayoub, MD

"I think that the biological case against Thimerosal is so dramatically overwhelming anymore that only a very foolish or a very dishonest person with the credentials to understand this research would say that Thimerosal wasnít most likely the cause of autism."--- Interview of Dr. Boyd E. Haley by Teri Small:

You think injecting mercury into babies at 250 times the EPA safety limit, plus its Synergistic toxicity with other poisons isn't going to cause disease like autism? http://www.whale.to/vaccines/thimerosal.htm

"And combination of substances in toxicology can be greater than the sum of its parts. "With lead and mercury, for instance, a  toxicity rating of 1 for each mercury and lead equals not 2, but 60 when combined." http://www.whale.to/vaccine/synergistic_toxicity_q.html


There are over 150 anti-vaccine web sites. None will disappear as a result of the new findings. After all, who cares what a multitude of huge epidemiological studies from all over the world say when former Playboy Playmate Jenny McCarthy, with her 38 C IQ, claims on Oprah and in the new book she's hawking that her son got autism from a vaccine?

Jealous, don't you look good in a swimsuit?  That is ad hominem.  You can bet your sweet ass we won't disappear. 

Here is a 'new' finding for you:

 Blood Levels of Mercury Are Related to Diagnosis of Autism http://www.whale.to/vaccine/blood_levels_of_mercury.html

and those studies were designed to draw attention away from those other studies that real journalists uncovered like Dan Olmsted:

"A specter is haunting the medical and journalism establishments of the United States: Where are the unvaccinated people with autism?"

 "I have not seen autism with the Amish," said Dr. Frank Noonan, a family practitioner in Lancaster County, Pa., who has treated thousands of Amish for a quarter-century.  "You'll find all the other stuff, but we don't find the autism. We're right in the heart of Amish country and seeing none, and that's just the way it is."  http://www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted_h.html

Dan Olmsted pretended to have done his own survey. Muy scientifico.

Yeah, scientifico being Allopathic 'science' that is completely corrupt.  Still waiting for you to debunk Olmsted's findings.

and, of course, the main factor they want to hide, the thousands of parents who observed their own children become autistic after vaccines http://www.whale.to/vaccine/media1.html

and where are the unvaccinated regressive autistics?

"I would also be particularly interested to learn of any documented cases of completely unvaccinated children who have later dramatically and inexplicably regressed into autism after a normal infancy. To date, no such case has ever been identified to me."--David Thrower 

"They claim that autism naturally occurs at about 18 months, when the MMR is routinely given, so the association is merely coincidental and not causal.  But the onset of autism at 18 months is a recent  development.  Autism starting at 18 months rose very sharply in the mid-1980s, when the MMR vaccine came into wide use.  A coincidence?  Hardly!"--Dr Rimland

save me the autism genetics bull http://www.whale.to/vaccines/autism_genetics.html
or the better diagnosis bull http://www.whale.to/a/autism_diagnosis.html


The major problem with this hysteria? It scares parents away from vaccination programs, even mandatory ones. And only mandatory programs can confer "herd immunity," meaning that immunization rates in the wider population are high enough (for example, 85 percent for diphtheria) to protect those not immunized. http://www.fumento.com/weblog/archives/vaccines/
Herd immunity is trotted out by vaccinators to promote high vaccination levels but the real reason is:
"The reason vaccinations are promoted with such intensity is to prevent people from realising that vaccines do not protect and also in the event of an outbreak or an epidemic the vaccinated are as much at risk of becoming infected as the unvaccinated.  The truth can be kept hidden if people's vaccination status remains unknown and if everyone is vaccinated, making a comparison with unvaccinated people impossible.  This is also the real reason for the relentless push to vaccinate as many children as possible."-- Dr Buchwald (The Decline of Tuberculosis despite "Protective" Vaccination by Dr. Gerhard Buchwald M.D. p101) http://www.whale.to/vaccines/high_vaccination_levels.html


Diseases like pertussis have made comebacks in countries as diverse as Australia, Japan, and Sweden after anti-vaccinationist scares. Better known as "whooping cough," pertussis is a highly contagious bacterial disease that causes uncontrollable, violent coughing. Pertussis cases went from fewer than 8,000 in the U.S. in 2001 to over 25,000 in 2005. Reaching parents who have already been practically brain-washed is hard, but for the sake of our children we must do so.

Complete bull.  Bear in mind DPT kick started autism from a virtually unherad of condition to what we have today (1 in 100) with the help of all the other vaccines.  While it is the main cause of cot-death, running at 10,000 in 1984, and serious brain damage--the UK gov paid out for 900 such victims.

"When in Germany, vaccinations against whooping cough were suspended between 1975 and 1991, the declining trend in the number of deaths from the disease continued as before."--Dr Buchwald (The Decline of Tuberculosis despite "Protective" Vaccination by Dr. Gerhard Buchwald M.D. p135)

"The seldom publicized history of the pertussis vaccine in Sweden, gives an entirely different point of view from that of the US public health service. Sweden banned the pertussis vaccine in 1979, and yet Sweden now has the second lowest infant mortality rate in the world, whereas the United States ranks a very poor 20th or lower...........a report  (Trollfors B.  Bordetella pertussis whole cell vaccines--efficacy and toxicity. Acta Paediatr Scand. 1984 Jul;73(4):417-25. Review. PMID: 6380211; UI: 84276893.) in 1984 stated that the pertussis mortality was generally very low in industrialized countries and there was no difference in severity and incidence of pertussis between countries with high, low and zero immunizations rates."--Harold Buttram

"Delay of DPT immunization until 2 years of age in Japan has resulted in a dramatic decline in adverse side effects. In the period of 1970-1974, when DPT vaccination was begun at 3 to 5 months of age, the Japanese national compensation system paid out claims for 57 permanent severe damage vaccine cases, and 37 deaths. During the ensuing six year period 1975-1980, when DPT injections were delayed to 24 months of age, severe reactions from the vaccine were reduced to a total of eight with three deaths. This represents an 85 to 90 percent reduction in severe cases of damage and death. (Ref21)."-Dr Obomsawin MD

"Dr. Kevin Geraghty, Bay Area Physicians for the Study of Pertussis Vaccines:   "The UCLA study showed one in 600 kids have shock like episodes. That is not controversial......Iím convinced in my heart of hearts that 100 American infants a year are dying and another 250 are brain-damaged from DPT. I would be prepared to clinically defend that to scientists." Geraghty believes as many as one in 15,000 children suffer brain damage and as many as one in 35,000 die following DPT vaccination."---Fresno Bee, DPT report 1984.

and Diptheria declined with poverty, like smallpox.

"Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles occurred before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics."---Dr Archie Kalokerinos, M.D.

On the other hand, said the Cochrane group, "Mumps, measles and rubella are serious diseases that can lead to potentially fatal illness, disability and death." As I wrote early last year, the idiocy over autism and the MMR probably wouldn't exist but for a tiny yet massively-publicized British study that turned out to have been paid for by trial lawyers who -- you got it -- were suing vaccine makers. In fact, some of the children in the study were their clients! When the news got out, the chief author was fired (he now works for the vaccine conspiracy nuts), the medical journal disavowed the study, and the co-authors also disavowed their participation. None of which mattered a bit to the conspiracy-theorists, who prize "real life" X-Files episodes over children's health and blasted me with more hate mail than I'd received on any subject to date.

It is pretty obvious to anyone who is after the truth (not you obviously) that MMR kills way way more kids than measles would be doing with or without vaccination as the stats show measles vax played no part in the decline in deaths http://www.whale.to/vaccines/measles.html

Secondly measles is a safe disease under proper management, and the real kicker is: if you or your ilk cared so much about child deaths how come you wont use vitamin c that has been shown by 1,200 medical references to cure measles and other infections like polio, hepatitis and meningitis??

"Many viral infectious diseases have been cured  and can continue to be   cured by the proper administration of Vitamin C.  Yes, the vaccinations for   these treatable infectious diseases are completely unnecessary when one has   the access to proper treatment with vitamin C.  And, yes, all the side   effects of vaccinations...are also completely unnecessary since the vaccinations do not have to be given in the first place with the availability of properly dosed vitamin C."---Dr Thomas Levy M.D., J.D. (Vitamin C,  Infectious Diseases and Toxins p30) http://www.whale.to/a/levy_h.html

Your measles graph is a classic propaganda one http://www.fumento.com/disease/measles.html

you wouldn't think measles deaths had declined in the UK by 99.4% from 1901/2 to vax intro, 1968, would you? http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html

Your link to  Organized international efforts which accuses us of all being liars isn't exactly a good source to use.  I haven't come across one instance of anti-vaccine people deliberately lying, yet have plenty of examples from your side http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ploy5.html

to scare the living tar out of parents of small children have just been dealt a stunning setback with the retraction of an influential but fraudulent article in a major medical journal. To the extent the retraction is publicized, it should prevent sickness and possible death in kids and help shove anti-vaccination groups back into the conspiracy theory cesspool from whence they arose. http://www.fumento.com/disease/measles.html

The effort to tar and brush Wakefield is turning into a foot shooting, I'm afraid http://www.whale.to/v/gmc_wakefield.html

Sorry about that.  So your the disgraced lead author slander is now being exposed as nasty propaganda against one of the few doctors actually helping the very damaged children

As for scare the living tar out of parents rubbish, you must be having a very heavy attack of projection there as the medical industry runs and breathes scaremongering http://www.whale.to/a/fear_dis.html 

December 2000 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found unvaccinated children had 22 times the rate of measles as vaccinated ones, even though by far most of the children around them had been immunized.

We can always trust vaccinators stats!  Who cares about measles incidence, they only go on about that to hide the fact over 50% of measles deaths have been vaccinated, and it is a bad thing to suppress measles

"It is well known that measles is an important development milestone in the life and maturing processes in children.  Why would anybody want to stop or delay the maturation processes of children and of their immune systems?"--Viera Scheibner http://www.whale.to/m/measles3.html

Yet the Lancet study was at a glance science baloney. For example, it was based on a whopping total of 12 children. But the game wasn't up until the Sunday Times of London reported that Wakefield had been receiving money from a lawyer who sues vaccine makers. In fact, several kids in the "study" were the lawyer's clients. Further, long before the disavowal of the report, massive research was showing no vaccine-autism link. Sixteen different studies, some evaluating over half a million children, found no connection. Conversely a total of two tiny studies hinted at an association.

I log the Wakefield smear camapign unravelling http://www.whale.to/v/gmc_wakefield.html

Eg one 

 "As for the assertion that Dr Wakefield tried to make a personal profit from manufacturing a vaccine in competition to the multinational drug companies, it became clear during Mr Tahanís evidence - and that of previous witnesses - that firstly, this was not a vaccine against measles, but a therapy that might ameliorate the adverse effects caused by measles vaccine; that Dr Wakefield had actually sought partnership with pharmaceutical companies to develop the therapy and finally that all profits from the patent, had it become a viable product, would actually have gone to the Royal Free Medical School.

One evaluation of all autistic children diagnosed in Denmark from 1971 to 2000 concluded, "The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an INCREASE in the incidence of autism." (Emphasis added.)

The infamous FRAUDULENT Danish study  http://www.whale.to/a/danish.html 

"In the early 1990s, boys with diagnosed developmental disorders were infrequently diagnosed with autism." Rather, awareness of the disease and changing diagnostic practices were probably "a major cause of the recent large increase."

save us the better diagnosis bull http://www.whale.to/a/autism_diagnosis.html

Increased diagnoses without increased incidence are common. Would you believe not a single case of hepatitis C was diagnosed before 1989? It's probably existed forever, but that was the year the virus was isolated and named.

Another invention to sell drugs, like HIV

"Chiron did not spend 5 years creating its own virus for nothing.  Having patented the test for the virus...first step was a paper in Science, edited by Dan Koshland, Jnr, proff of molecular and cell biology at Univ of California at Berkely.  Edward Penhoet, chief executive of Chiron, also holds a (similar) position.  The NIH-supported virology establishment soon lent the full weight of its credibility to the hepatitis C virus camp....Chiron's test kit now earns some $60 million annually in this country alone (1996)....all this testing (raising the nation's medical costs) is being done for a virus that has never been isolated.....Chiron made an unrestricted donation of about $2 million to the Department of Molecular and Cell Biology at the Univ of California at Berkley that generates $100,000 in interest each year."---Peter Duesberg (Inventing the AIDS Virus.  Phantom Viruses and Big Bucks p83-87) http://www.whale.to/a/hepatitis_tests_h.html

If indeed there is more autism, a likely culprit is women having babies later than ever Ė something long associated with numerous birth defects. Another is the obesity epidemic. About 20 published studies have found that children from overweight moms, much less those who are outright obese, have higher rates of many types of birth defects. To point this out, of course, is to beg for a horsewhipping from feminists, fat activists, and trial lawyers.

Count me in on the horsewhipping!  You can cause autism from early cord clamping and other things, but injecting mercury and aluminium directly into babies seems the more likely culprit.

"A single vaccine given to a six-pound newborn is the equivalent of giving a 180-pound adult 30 vaccinations on the same day.  Include in this the toxic effects of high levels of aluminum and formaldehyde contained in some vaccines, and the synergist toxicity could be increased to unknown levels.  Further, it is very well known that infants do not produce significant levels of bile or have adult renal capacity for several months after birth.  Bilary transport is the major biochemical route by which mercury is removed from the body, and infants cannot do this very well.  They also do not possess the renal (kidney) capacity to remove aluminum. Additionally, mercury is a well-known inhibitor of kidney function."--Boyd Haley Ph.D. http://www.whale.to/v/haley.html

but that would blow you out the water along with the trillion $$$ medical industry, and history shows they only care about money and power.  Allopathy was designed to make money, for power over the little people, and to kill them off.  As you woulkd expect from a monopoly http://www.whale.to/a/allopathy_h.html

But it remains that parents who do not vaccinate their children are not only putting them in harm's way but also their children's friends and classmates. As to those who frighten parents away from childhood vaccinations? They may have money in the pockets, but they have blood on their hands.

talking of blood

Allopathy is the leading cause of death, 783,936 every year in the USA.  Smallpox vaccination killed millions over the centuries and vaccination has always been the leading baby killer 25,000 in 1880 at the height of compulsory vaccination, 6,000 in 1921 (UK).http://www.whale.to/vaccines/deaths.html 



----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Fumento" <fumento@comcast.net>
To: "john" <scu23@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: measles graph

> On to me? You mean like head lice?
> Michael Fumento
fumento@pobox.com <mailto:fumento@pobox.com>
> john wrote:
>> that was a classic in misinformation, thanks, I can use that
>> get the real one
>> and real story about measles and mmr