by David Icke
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/duncanroadsreplytoickeongardner.shtml

NEXUS PUBLISHER REPLIES TO GARDNER CLAIMS

by David Icke

The following is a reply from Duncan Roads, the publisher of NEXUS magazine, to the claims by Stewart Swerdlow and Arizona Wilder about Sir Laurence Gardner. In the interests of the free flow of views and information, and your right to come to your own conclusions, I print it in full. My responses are also included in dark red.

Dear David,

It was with considerable shock and horror that I read the posting about Sir Laurence Gardner on your website. I am glad, however, that you have so publicly promised to post any of Laurence's replies.

My Reply:
Sure...I just want to know what is going on and put all information before people. It is for them to decide what they think in the light of that.
Duncan Roads:

Since you are so happy to publish Stewart's (alleged) experiences involving Laurence, I wonder if you would care to consider my own?

My Reply:
Sure. Sad, though, that what you make out to be a personal letter to me was sent to a stream of other people before it got to me.This, therefore, meant there was no right of reply for me like I am offering to Sir Laurence and to you. But never mind, whatever. If that's the way you feel it appropriate to conduct yourself, please feel free.

Duncan Roads:
I have paid for Laurence to come to Australia twice now. Each time he came to speak at our annual NEXUS Conference. He was so well received, and so popular the first time, that we brought him over a second time.

My Reply:
Many people are popular in Australia, including, God forbid, among large numbers of Australians, the Queen of England. Don't see the relevance in this, mate.

Duncan Roads:
As you no doubt are aware, we have run three series of articles written by Sir Laurence. Feedback from our Internet Reader Survey, plus the many letters and emails indicate his articles are a great source of fascination for readers of NEXUS and their immediate circles.

My Reply:
Fine, but what is your point? To be honest, I cannot see how it connects to the article and invitation to Sir Laurence Gardner to put the record straight on what Stewart is saying he experienced.

Duncan Roads:
I chose to run those articles as they challenge the existing 'status quo' of western religions, plus provide interesting insights into the history of Christianity. I considered that they presented exciting and empowering views of history, and how are lives are affected to this day.

My Reply:
Again, where are you going here, Duncan? I have not challenged Nexus Magazine's right to publish Sir Laurence Gardner's articles. You have a right to publish what you like. What I was pointing out was that Sir Laurence has been given major coverage in Nexus to present his views without criticism or questioning from you or the magazine. In contrast you have gone out of your way to criticise and dismiss my own book and views which, even more than Sir Laurence, "...challenge the existing 'status quo' of western religions, plus provide interesting insights into the history of Christianity". Double standards.

Duncan Roads:
I am aware that your own views of history incorporate the belief that Christ did not exist.

My Reply:
As I have said many times, my research points to the fact that no 'historical Jesus Christ" ever existed. Was there ever a Jewish man named "Jesus Christ"? Or is this a perversion by way of intentional frauds by the church? The answers are no there was not and yes it is.

And how come the "Jesus" stories are awash with exactly the same events and experiences told about countless pre-Christian deities going back thousands of years? Just a co-incidence? I am far from the only one who challenges the literal existence of the Biblical "Jesus". If he did not exist, of course, there cannot be a bloodline back to him, which is the whole foundation of Sir Laurence's work. He has a right to say one thing, I have a right to say another. Simple.

Duncan Roads:
I am also therefore aware that the ideas promoted by two, high-profile researchers of late, Zecharia Sitchin and Laurence Gardner, are contradictory to your own. I perceive, thus, that you have reasonable motive to character assassinate them.

My Reply:
Really, Duncan, this is just silly. I really don't give a damn whether people believe in the historical Jesus or whether they think Sitchin is correct in everything he says. Why on earth should that ever matter to me? It is none of my business what people believe. In fact, I agree with quite a bit of what Sitchin says and, as I said in the website article, Sir Laurence Gardner has much fact in his writings. Why do you have to portray everything in such black and white terms? People should read what I write, what Sitchin writes, and what Sir Laurence writes. Then they should come to their own conclusions. I couldn't care less what those conclusions are because it is none of my business.

Duncan Roads:
Zecharia Sitchin and Laurence Gardner are well-respected by the public, not just for the content of their ideas, but because they have originated NEW concepts and ideas to consider. They have taken existing pieces of the puzzle, and have found new pieces to present a bigger suggested picture.

My Reply:
Yes, but so what? That also applies to you and your magazine, and to me and my books, and to Henry Kissinger. Doesn't mean that what we say is all true, does it?

Duncan Roads:
In contrast, you have built your 'research reputation' upon the work of others. Even the reptilian conspiracy theory you promote is not new. The only thing original in your 'research' is that you have persecuted two much-needed original thinkers!

My Reply:
Oh Duncan, don't be daft. You have built your magazine upon the work of others. You could not publish a single edition, but for that. Of course you, and Gardner, and Sitchin, Bible teachers, academics, myself, and every other researcher uses and studies previous research on subject matter. Every doctorate thesis also includes a bibliography of 'prior research,' to give evidence and credibility to the conclusions of the author of the thesis. Did you talk to Sir Laurence Gardner about this statement? Don't you think he read other research before coming to his conclusions? You don't think he read the book, "Holy Blood- Holy Grail"? I know he has used the research of others, but how can anyone not do so when they are trying to piece together vast amounts of information?

What utter nonsense this is, Duncan, what utter hypocrisy!

Now persecution. I have the accounts of two witnesses on file to the statements in the article concerning Sir Laurence Gardner. Two witnesses is a common law application directly from the wording in the Bible and adopted throughout history as defence in law. Two witnesses have come forward with their separate and individual accounts concerning Sir Laurence Gardner. In common law, the word of two witnesses stand as FACT, unless controverted by greater evidence. I have reported the accounts of these two witnesses. Your letter offers no controverting evidence in law to refute the testimony of two witnesses. Let anyone produce that evidence and I will publish it with equal prominence immediately. I just want the truth - whatever it is.

Duncan Roads:
I have had personal dealings with Laurence and Zecharia. I wonder if you have ever bothered to consider contacting them before publicly attacking their characters and promoting the idea of their being shape-shifting reptilian aliens from another dimension who kill and eat babies at satanic Illuminati ritual sacrifices? That would have been considered good research in my books!

My Reply:
Duncan, I am not saying they do. I was not there. I am reporting what people say they experienced. I am KEEN, let alone willing, to publish whatever they want to say in reply to these claims which is relevant to what is being suggested.

If you have controverting evidence.. bring it forward and I will publish it here - willingly. I just want to know what is going on. The group you do not refer to in your letter even once are the stunning numbers of children who are being abused and ritually murdered and tortured day after day. What about them? Do we not owe it to all of them, past, present, and future, to do all we can to find out what is happening? That's all I am trying to do.

Does anyone think I enjoy pouring over this stuff every day? There are many more things I would much rather do with my life, thank-you. But if we walk away, it goes on.

Duncan Roads:
Instead, you have chosen to rely on two obviously traumatised individuals. Assuming for a moment that their experiences ARE based in THIS reality, I can assure you that Arizona Wilder is NOT considered 'reliable' by others in her 'field'; and your latest witness for the prosecution, Stewart Swerdlow, is considered by other, original Montauk experiencers as VERY suspect.

My Reply:
Ms. Wilder has also made the same and similar allegations against William Buckley, but you did not come to his defence. How can you assure me of anything concerning Ms. Wilder? You say I should have contacted Gardner and Sitchin. Have you contacted and spoken to Ms. Wilder before condemning her and dismissing her in your magazine and elsewhere? No. Like, I say, it's just hypocrisy, Duncan. And what is Arizona Wilder's "field"? Suffering appalling abuse from the time you are born is not a "field". Goodness me.

Now for spurious... Did you know the "official website' of the European Council of Princes resided on a Gardner products website? Did you know the "official website" of the Royal Stewart line of Scotland resided on a Gardner products website? Did you know the "official website" of Prince Michael resided on a Gardner products website? Are you aware that there are geneologists who claim to have debunked Prince Michael's claims, promoted by Sir Laurence, as without foundation? Have you said so in Nexus to give balance?

Duncan Roads:
If gossip and innuendo are all you need to defame people like Sitchin and Gardner, maybe you should be held to the same scales of justice?

My Reply:
I am held to the same scales of justice that you insinuate. I have had my character assassinated for ten years in the UK media, Duncan, and the South Africa media, etc., etc.. That's just one of the hazards of doing what I do. Don't give a shit.

Duncan Roads:
After spending many years organising conferences, talks, workshops for scores of new-age speakers/gurus, (this was before I took over NEXUS) I can honestly say a lot don't really 'have it together'. Many want women on the side, money before they talk, drink, drugs, 5 star travel, or just more money. Laurence was certainly NOT one of these.

My Reply:
Okay, I give up. Where did I ever say that he was?

Duncan Roads:
Thus, when I select speakers for our conference, I always 'check them out' with other conference organisers around the world. You would be amazed at some of the experiences we swap! Admittedly, Zecharia is not considered the easiest person to work with, but he is widely considered as professional, honest and up front. Laurence came up with glowing recommendations from the one or two organisers I could find.

My Reply:
Good, pleased for you.

Duncan Roads:
You, David Icke, on the other hand, I should point out, have a reputation with some organisers to the point where they have told me they will never have you back again. The list of businesses that will never deal with you again is also quite long, even here in Australia. Are they ALL reptiles too? Would YOU like me to publicly mention what they all say about you?

My Reply:
If you do Duncan, you will be doing what you are accusing me of doing. But go ahead mate...name them...name them all. Send the names to this website and I will post them right here.

But why are the numbers of people keen to help me getting bigger all the time?

Duncan Roads:
I can only go on my gut feelings about Laurence. I was able to spend several days of lunches, dinners and drinks with him. I had considerable time to form a character judgement of him, and based on these experiences I found him to be one of the most honest, reliable, and refreshingly egoless people for whom I have ever organised events.

My Reply:
So what? You now stand as a character witness for Sir Laurence. Good, that's your right. But again and again you have refused to address the point.

Duncan Roads:
On a personal note, I want to say how disappointed I am personally with where you have taken this. I, like many others, used to look up to you. You are very charismatic on stage, a powerful and motivated speaker, and very energetic. Your passion for what you believe comes through very strongly. Your advocation of values such as unconditional love earned my respect the instant I read it.

However your trawling the internet for anyone who has anything negative on Laurence borders on the tactics and style of the very tabloid trash media you so cheerfully criticise. I wonder what I would get if I asked for anyone with any dirt on David Icke to contact me?

My Reply:
Go ahead. I am sure you would get plenty. But they would not tell you anything that has not been printed already or that did not appear in my autobiography. Tell you what, Duncan, if you want to publish dirt on me, give me a ring. I might be able to help you with the detail.

(By the way, children are being tortured and killed around the world as we speak. Is this really the best use of our energy??)

I did not "trawl" the internet for trash on anyone. I ask the thousands who come to my website what they know about a stream of subjects - just as you get information to your magazine constantly from readers. Why have thousands of people coming to a website every day and not use their knowledge and experiences to move our understanding forward?

I have done precisely this with the Ritual Child Abuse going on world-wide. Are you saying I should not do that, then?

Duncan Roads:
I have now come to believe that you are just desperate for sensationalism, at any cost. Your use of twisting carefully selected extracts from Laurence's work indicates clearly that you have little interest in engaging in constructive debate. You have chosen smear instead of seeking the truth of the matter. What still amazes me is that you have not even bothered to contact Laurence to discuss any of this. You should really apply for a job at Weekly World News, or with Rupert Murdoch - their journalists use similar tactics.

My Reply:
When did you contact Arizona Wilder, Duncan? Oh, that's right, you didn't. And, by the way, far from carefully selecting extracts from Sir Laurence's work, I add a link in the article to his site and EXACTLY what he is saying in his own words. Also, if I was interested only in "sensationalism", why would I turn my attention to a person who 99% of the population on Planet Earth have never heard of??

Duncan Roads:
Ironic that one of the 'conspiracy movement's' recent 'stars' is putting the boot into two such admired writers/researchers such as Laurence Gardner and Zecharia Sitchin!

I personally believe that you have Laurence and Zecharia completely wrong! I do not believe that they are shape-shifting reptilian aliens as you depict. I believe Arizona and Stewart are totally mistaken in this respect.

My Reply:
Fine, and you have every right to believe that. Arizona and Stewart say they experienced something different. Its called life and freedom of expression. I repeat, I just want to know what the truth is, either way. I am merely reporting what they say and giving everyone the opportunity to say something different. I have invited Sir Laurence to respond. Why are you doing it and not he?

Duncan Roads:
You accuse me on your webpage as being scathing of your claims about Gardner. This is correct.

You imply that this is because I have 'massively promoted' Gardner. This is incorrect. I am scathing of your claims because based on my own personal experiences with Gardner and Sitchin, I simply do not believe they are shape-shifting reptilian aliens from another dimension who kill and eat babies at satanic Illuminati ritual sacrifices!

My Reply:
You just said you have organised events for Gardner, and published his articles at length. Further, you stated that you had "lunches, dinners and drinks with him, ...had considerable time to form a character judgement of him ...(and)...have paid for Laurence to come to Australia." That is massive involvement and therefore, promotion for a magazine.

Duncan Roads:
Of all the likely contenders out there to be reptiles, you continually pick on Sir Laurence Gardner, almost to the point of obsession! (I notice you have dropped off accusations of Sitchin of late). I suggest you are targetting Sir Laurence purely because his research contradicts your own theories about the non-existence of Christ.

My Reply:
Oh my goodness. Does anyone with any discernable brain-cell activity, really believe that I would do this because another author disagrees about Jesus?? Duncan, Duncan, Duncan, is that really the best you can offer?

I did not PICK on anyone, certainly not Sir Laurence Gardner. No-one would be more delighted than me if what is said about him is not correct. I can only report what is being said and that's what I do. Look at the stream of other far more famous people named by Arizona Wilder, Cisco Wheeler, Fritz Springmeier and so many others. Why do you not cite them? Sir Laurence is hardly mentioned in The Biggest Secret, and yet a long, long, list of other far more famous names are. How can you then claim that I am "picking" on Sir Laurence?

I did not send out letters or my articles to Laurence's detractors, nor did I attempt to post my article on Laurence's website, forum, or network. But you or your colleagues did with your letter in relation to me.

Duncan Roads:
Why else would you be so hung up on the guy?

My Reply:
I am not hung up on anyone. It is the simple pursuit of what is going on. If anyone is obsessed with Sir Laurence, Duncan, it would appear to be you.

Duncan Roads:
PS: If you do end up posting this for all to see, be sure to tell them to read the FULL series of articles by Sir Laurence, available for free at our website- Nexus Magazine. I notice the link you refer to on your website may not give readers access to the full range of Gardner's articles. An accidental oversight on your behalf I am sure.

My Reply:
Tis done...the free flow of information is all I am concerned about. I am sure that now you will have the same concerns and include in any articles referring to me in your magazine that my website is http://www.davidicke.com

Funny, you never have so far. An accidental oversight, I'm sure.

I would just end by saying that after reading what is, for me, an extremely childish letter, my lasting question is this: Are you REALLY the publisher of a magazine that has designs on being taken seriously?

You are? My God. I will never see it in the same light again. And I'm sure I am not the only one.

all the best,
David Icke

Related Article:
New claims that Sir Laurence Gardner is a shape-shifter who takes part in human sacrifice rituals.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/laurencegardnershapeshifter.shtml

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