Jon Whale  The Assemblage point

Assemblage Point interview with practitioner.

[A Metapsychologist.] 

June 2007

You were trained in Metapsychology, who trained you?

Dr Lori Beth Bisby

How long have you been doing that for?

Long long time, probably 18 years.

Is there a Metapsychology organization in England or worldwide?

It was the Institute of Research into Metapsychology in Menlow Park, California, but since Steve Bisbey died I think it is called TIRA, Traumatic Incidence Reduction Association.

Who started Metapsychology?

Sarge Gerbode.  He was an ex-psychiatrist who realized psychiatry didn’t work.  I think he was a psychiatrist, psychologist, and doctor.  He realized it was failing people.  He took the elements of Gurdjieff, NLP, bit of Scientology.  He co wrote it with Steve Bisbey.

He invented Metapsychology as Psychiatry doesn’t work?

Yes, sort of.  I genuinely discovered it in Australia, it was called Personal Development, and I had never even heard of Metapsychology, so when I met Steve Bisbey and he mentioned Metapsychology it didn’t mean anything to me.  So I went along and had my life repair, felt blissfully happy, amazing.

What is life repair?

It is where you have 10 or 15 hours and it fixes everything.  Imagine a jam jar with about 10 biros in it, one is a car crash when you were five, when you were 12 your father died, 15 you were raped, and you put all the biros in, and then you take each one out, so you get back to being a 17 year old bursting with enthusiasm, but with the wisdom of a 50 year old.

Metapsychology is basically the tone scale and TIR?

It is learning not to get into the states in life.

The tone scale is the key.

Absolutely, you see people coming.  Whereas before you might think you don’t like that person very much but you might let that person into your life, whereas now, when you know the tone scale, you don’t let that person come anywhere near you.

The machine taps into your subconscious behind your conscious mind, and you read the meter, so you can zero in on any traumatic incidence in the past.  Once you connect with that it goes.

Yes.  The only reason it has been bothering you is because it is locked away and unavailable to you.  Once it becomes available to your consciousness it is gone.

Most therapists just let you talk your way into those incidences, or make you sit there until it bubbles up.

I was listening to this psychologist (on the radio) with this woman who could never get over her mother’s death, she was lacking in confidence and very weakly.  The psychologist instead of getting rid of it, she taught here how to cope with it.  It didn’t get rid of it, it was coping.  It has its place, but when you stop the bogey man who is lurking in the deep, it is no longer a bogey man.

What is the tone scale position of some therapists?

Many are in Sympathy.  Psychiatrists just hand out pills. 

How soon after you first met Jon Whale did he teach you the AP, or were you impressed with it?

When I met him, and this is why it’s such a good story, because I still couldn’t walk very well.   I had had Metapsychology, and that had made me massively better, massively.  I had had my mercury fillings done, and that is another story in itself, but I was still not walking very well.  My AP was coming through my liver and at an awkward angle and I still wasn’t walking terribly well.  I was still quite crippled really.

And within 48 hours of arriving in Cumbria he moved my AP, and it was instant.  It had been through the liver for years, since I was 37, and he did a manual shift, and instantly, not with other therapies where you have to wait, and go back next week.  Instantly!  On the spot, boomf, whack, I was running round, running, sort of went back to being 17 again.  I could walk, I could run, I could do anything.  It was amazing.

But how soon did he teach me, probably pretty soon, within a week.

The other thing I want to stress is that the AP isn’t going to cure everything, maybe find out what has moved the AP into that position in the first place, so that is where TIR comes in.

Absolutely.

So you keep reactivating that situation.  Is it the suppressive personality that shifts your AP?

I personally think that is the only thing that depresses people.

Is other people?

I think so.  Apart from accidents, financial problems, for instance if you have no money, and if you have 6 children to feed, that is going to put your AP down.  That could be argued that is a suppression by the system.

Then you get drugs, pharmaceutical drugs, and illegal drugs, can shift it, and keep you depressed, have a bad acid trip and it shifts you God knows where, and not come back.

That isn’t my area of research, I have just never gone into that area.  In terms of suppression you can literally be as happy as can be in a shop, and if you don’t know the Tec or the tone scale you can even get some insignificant little shop assistant who can make a comment to you that can really whack your AP off.  If you know the tone scale and you know the Tec, and you are a very high tone person, even then it can still do it.

That incident mightn’t affect anyone else, why does it affect you?  Is it connected to some incidence in your past?

Yes, possibly.  It is insidious little comments, for instance, some parent makes some trivial comment about your child and it can put you into depression for days, weeks, because it is moving the AP, and you don’t know why.  I do now, and you do now, but when you are 20, 30 or 40 and you didn’t know all this stuff, and you didn’t know your AP was now under your right shoulder blade, and you are walking around in a depression, then you get flu, and the doctor gives you something evil to take.

It was like this woman who got into my car after my accident, she seemed very middle class, high tone, well spoken lady, she got into my car because “I can’t leave a woman sitting on her own”, but I just spotted her, and I said would you be kind enough to close the door as it was bitterly cold.  I was perfectly alright sitting there waiting for the police to come, but she insisted on the door being wide open, with exhaust fumes coming in and I was choking.  I asked her repeatedly to close the door and she wouldn’t.  I said just go, but very few people would have the guts to speak to anyone like that, after someone was being extremely kind to them, who would tell them to clear off?

It is like little old ladies giving milk to fawns that have just been born, and so the mothers never go back to them.

Yes, it is Propitiation.  Everyone thinks the dangerous one is covert-hostility, I think the dangerous one is Propitiation.  You can spot covert-hostile, you can see it.  You can’t fight Propitiation as they are so kind and giving, it is very hard to say go away.

They drop your AP?

Yes, they make you lie down and put a blanket over you when there is nothing wrong with you.

You wouldn’t lie down unless you were depressed, so it is a very subtle depression?

Yes.  Propitiation is lower down the tone scale and much more harmful.

You talked about the AP up on the back, moving it up the shoulder?

Yes, I meant on the front.

It comes in from the front?

It comes in both directions.

It has an angle, it can be up or down?  Is low at the front, high at the back different to high at the front low at the back?

Yes.  I hate ones that are low at the back and up at the front, they are hard to shift, I just don’t like those.

Do you ever get someone with it in the centre coming in high or low?

Quite often quite big fat obnoxious pompous men sometimes have the AP very dropped on their central meridian line, sometimes, which is what makes them so vile.  But generally speaking they tend to be mostly going through the liver. 

The dropped ones?

No, generally speaking they are over on the right, they are quite unusual in the centre I think.  Dropped centre are unusual.   Centre is unusual, and dropped centre also.

Everyone is up on top right?

Usually.

Mine, if it goes anywhere goes down to the right, that is depression, low energy.

That is very unusual to drop down like that, it could be something to do with drugs in the past, it shouldn’t really do that.  It should only do that if you have had a car crash, or serious operation, it shouldn’t do that.

It could be psychedelic use.

Yes, it should only do that once or twice a lifetime.

So you have a movement when you meet someone in your family who is a suppressive personality, or someone you know, is different to meeting someone in the street or in a shop, isn’t it?  With a family or friend it is something in your past?  Some game you are playing?

When you don’t give a damn they stop doing it.

It is weird, it is like a two handed game.

A bully will only bully if it can see that it is tormenting you.  If you don’t give a damn, then why would they bother doing it, they will go onto someone else.

I’ll give you an example of someone I know.  She used to shift my AP by criticizing my hair or clothes, and you can imagine where my AP went, but eventually I thought stuff her, so I wore my bell bottom stripy trousers to a wedding, and I am not going to try and dress from head to toe in grey tweed, why should I?  I am what I am. 

She tried to bring me down so I can’t affect her, so I got in there and brought her down first, so I took her power away so she couldn’t bully me

What makes it stick and not come back up again?

I think a thought makes it go off, you can think of something unpleasant or something that someone has said or done to you, or a problem you have and it can just whack off, and having it perpetually in the middle, I imagine you are desperately in love, if you are in the heights of love almost nothing would move it.

If you are in love and in a nice set of circumstances, not worried about money, you are eating healthy food.

When you met Jon, you were crippled, was that ME?

Yes

So shifting the AP cured your ME?

Yes, it’s not quite as black and white as that.  Keith (Scott-Mumby) wrote a book about this. 

I got hugely better, but I still couldn’t walk awfully well, it was still very difficult to put one foot in front of the other.  I could walk but kind of hobbling around a bit.  I certainly wasn’t running around in the way that I normally did, and then I met Jon Whale, went up there, then pretty much immediately, the second or first day, he checked my AP, saw that it was coming through my liver at a dreadful angle, shifted it, and then instantly, from barely being able to put one foot in front on the other, hobbling around, to literally going on the beach with him and running for miles and miles and then going up the hills and mountains.  We are talking 15 mile walks the very next day up the steepest hills.

A miracle really.

It was down, coming through the liver.  Are there angles worse than others?

From my point of view for shifting, if it was going straight through, imagine a pencil or arrow, going from the back through the front, straight, like a bar, that is probably better, but sometimes they come through in all sorts of weird ways.

Are they harder to shift?

Yes, and do the most damage.

I am feeling mine now as we are talking and it is kind of up on the right shoulder at the front and I would say it is about 2 inches off the centre of the back, quite high up which is high stress, so I need to get it back down into the middle, lower, at this moment.

It does move very easily doesn’t it?  That is what people have to get isn’t it, that it can move very easily?

Yes

What stops it moving back to centre, or the position it was in?

Not having handled the incident is my opinion.

Does everyone react the same when it goes through the liver, or does it depend on the angle?

It depends on the angle, and I would say it depends on your Dosha.  I have had people who are Pitta with the AP going through the liver but they have still been fit and active, and I have also had Kapha types who have almost been unable to move.  So it depends on your Dosha.

Pitta is very fast high metabolism.